BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Thank you.  Is there anyone here in the audience here who is not in favor of this request made by the Welches?  If so, please let it be known by raising your hand. (No response by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All right. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All right.  Is there anyone here who would specifically like to address this commission tonight?  If so, please raise your hand, state your name for the audience, for our official recorders and please make -- yes, sir.  Your name, please? 

BY MR. ____________:  Name is ____________.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, Mr. ____________.

BY MR. ____________:  I reside on Mt. Salus Drive and have for eight years.  I used to walk in the neighborhood before I joined the Healthplex and that included Mt. Salus, Kitchings Drive and Hannah Drive.  And I remember they were building that treehouse back when I was -- back then.  That was in '96.  It was early '97 when they started it.  My question is:  They passed the ordinance in April of '97. Why did it take until April of 2002 for someone to realize, oh, that can't be there.  If the city had a problem with it, why wasn't something said before?  Why wait until now?  I also have pictures of some areas in that neighborhood that are detrimental, far more detrimental to the neighborhood than that treehouse.  Thank you.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. Yes, ma'am?   

BY MS. ____________:  ____________.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, ____________.

BY MS. ____________:  I would like to know how many of you noticed in The Clinton News the day that the first problem came up about the treehouse.  The top editorial said, get rid of the treehouse or treehouse must go.  That's a free play area, playground, whatever you want to call it.  My kids played soccer in the front yard.  Then the next one said, bring your kiddies down to the Healthplex center and pay us to take care of your children.  Well, why are we tearing down a treehouse --

BY MRS. SHERER:  Ms. ____________, would you please speak louder.  I cannot hear you.

BY MS. ____________:  The first article had to do with get rid of the treehouse.  The second article had to do with bring your children down to the Baptist Healthplex for a play day where you can pay us to take care of your children. Why should these people have to tear down a treehouse where the kids can stay at home for free and learn to be good citizens in their own neighborhood. (Clapping by Audience.)   

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. Yes, sir, in the white shirt.

BY MR. ____________:  My name is ____________, and I reside at ____________ Kitchings Drive and I have since September of 1987.  I would ask that y'all use sound judgment in understanding that ordinances and variances are granted on a daily basis.  For example, we fought real hard not to have the zoning changed, and yet there was a building built at the end of Kitchings Drive that produced the betterment of Clinton, as it was put at the time.  And it's still an empty, gray, ugly building.  Ma'am, I can assure you, most assuredly, this lady watches the children better than you probably ever did in your life.  She is on them.  She makes them share.  She makes them take turns, and if anybody acts up whatsoever, she sends them home.  So they are very safe.

BY MRS. KING:  I commend that very highly.

BY MR. ____________:  I would urge each of you -- as a business owner in ____________, I'm having to explain to my patrons in a ____________ ____________ what's going on.  As a ____________, ____________, ____________, Mississippi, at our regular state meeting the other night, I'm trying to explain to my ____________ why in the world the city objects to a treehouse.  I don't know.  But I would appreciate it if you would just consider that since ordinances are made and variances are granted, just use common sense and understand that 95 percent or better of the people that reside in Green Acres subdivision, Kitchings and Hannah Drive do respectfully request that you do grant this and that you do allow it to stay.  Thank you.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Other comments, either for or against. Yes, sir, in the blue shirt.

BY MR. ____________:  I'm one neighbor of Green Acres subdivision.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  And your name, sir?

BY MR.____________:  ____________.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________.

BY MR. ____________:  I have been a resident for 30 years in Green Acres subdivision and the rest in Clinton 36 years.  I can't add a whole lot to what's been said.  To say the least, this is an emotional issue.  It is for me and I know for everybody here.  Anyone for whom this is not an emotional issue, you need to check their heart. I would just say a couple of things in support.  As one neighbor who has signed the petition with 49 others asking that this treehouse remain, first of all, in my opinion, this is about children.  Clinton is a city that is pro children.  It's pro people.  I'm a proud resident of the city of Clinton.  There's nowhere else I'd rather be.  I'm proud to have reared my children in Clinton.  I'm thankful for the many advantages they have had growing up in Clinton.  I would just -- in the interest of the many children, scores of children who already play on this treehouse and will play, that the conditional use be granted so that they can keep the treehouse, and I think this is in the interest of fairness and compassion and a matter of doing the right thing.  Thank you.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir, in the back row.

BY MR. ____________:  My name is ____________.  I live --

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  I'm sorry.  I didn't catch it.

BY MR. ____________:  ____________.  I live in Clinton.  I've been a citizen of the city since 1976.  And I can understand that possibly the city inspector might not have an obligation or be aware of all the rules as to the use, but it seems to be a little mean spirited to me for a neighbor or whoever complained to watch this thing being built for five years, a labor of love and then come forward when it's finished. If I've got a complaint about any of my neighbors, when I see the backhoe, I'm going to be out there talking to them about what's going on, you know.  And then if I can't talk him out of doing what I know to be against the rules, against the ordinance, then I'm going to go to the city.  I'm not going to wait until they get it completed.  And I really wish we'd consider how serious this complainant is.  He's not here tonight, he or she, and it seems a little mean spirited to me to have them expect you to act on their will.  So just please consider that.   

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Further comments, either for or against.  I see a hand in the back row. Yes, ma'am.

BY MS. ____________:  I'm ____________.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, Ms. ____________.

BY MS. ____________:  A longtime educator, administrator and parent.  For 30 years, I was an administrator and I know making decisions is not easy.  Things are not black nor are they white.  They are every shade of gray.  But every decision should be seasoned with common sense and sensitivity.  My second issue is that our children are with us such a short time.  I lost a daughter less than two weeks ago.  So let the children be children and let the parents enjoy them. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.

BY MR. ____________:  I'm ____________.  I live at ____________ Kitchings Drive.  And it's a whole lot easier to tell people where you live now. Just tell them you live across the street from the treehouse.   I'm not familiar with the ordinances of Clinton.  I've lived here since 1978.  But if there is exceptions to be made, this is a case that certainly deserves every consideration of this board. (Vocal response from audience.)

BY MR. ____________:  I have never known of a couple that supervised their children as well as Scot and Mary do.  They spend -- Scot, when he comes home -- I don't know when Scot works.  I'm sure Delphi may ask him that question too.  He spends an awful lot of time with these children, and what a great place this would be if all parents were that sensitive.  So I would certainly urge you -- certainly, you've got to do what's right.  I would just ask you to be fair in your consideration for what's been presented here.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Further comments either for or against.  We want to hear your observations tonight, please.

BY MR. MARTIN:  Mr. Chairman, could I sort of throw out a general question to the audience. I didn't want to pick on anybody in particular.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All right.

BY MR. MARTIN:  I think this would be a very easy decision if this was a poorly constructed playhouse and was dangerous and caused a lot of problems.  We don't have that here.  I think we have a very well-built treehouse and a very fine couple that built it. My question -- and I'll just throw out a general if anybody would like to address it is, are you here in support of this treehouse because it's well-built or do you think that treehouses ought to be permitted anywhere in the city regardless of what they look like?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Mr. ____________, was it?

BY MR. ____________:  Yes.  My background is safety engineer.  Our company here in Mississippi is ____________.  I'm a professional safety engineer.  And if anybody is interested in safety, I am.  And I think that it is important to have a safe structure.  And I'm not even sure that many of the people here would object if some rules were established or some inspection process were implemented and even some strict criteria for the construction, because nobody wants to see a child injured. I've looked at -- I'm not an inspector -- I'm not a building inspector, but I've looked at what Scot's done, and it's not going to fall down.  It's not going to injure his children. It's well-built.  If the city wants to say, okay, this one is built, it's done, it stays, but here are some rules if anybody else wants to build one, I don't think anybody would have an objection to that.

BY MR. SMITH:  Can I throw out one thing? And the suggestion that I didn't put in the paper, but I'm going to present it to the mayor and the board, it would be real easy for the mayor and board to adopt -- to amend the ordinance and do two things.  First, define treehouse.  Second, prohibit all other treehouses from being located in the front yard. This situation would never come up again.  And it's a very easy legal avenue by which the city never would have to deal with this problem again because it would clearly define treehouse and clearly prohibit a treehouse in the front yard. It's a real simple solution.  I'm going to ask the mayor and board to consider that when we go before them on the 6th, based on your recommendation and our appeal.  So I think that would be a very simple way for the city to deal with this situation and all treehouse situations in the future.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Further comments, Jim?

BY MR. MARTIN:  No.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir, in the blue shirt standing up.  You had a comment?

BY MR. ____________:  I was just going to say a similar thing.  Why not just write a new ordinance that allows a well-built, safe treehouse?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Identify yourself for the record, please.

BY MR. ____________:  I'm ____________.  I came from Jackson.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Okay. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Mr. ____________, you have a further comment?

BY MR. ____________:  Yes, sir.  I think we are here because it is a well-built treehouse.  I think we're all here because it does indeed display what people working together can do and have a wonderful place for the children and how absolutely wonderful it would be if every neighborhood in Clinton had a set of ordinances and guidelines that they could follow and they could build their own treehouses in their own back yards as prescribed by you and have all these people that are playing together instead of the teenagers that hang out in the parking lots late at night and parents that don't know where their kids are.  I think we're here because they are the Welches and because it is a wonderful, wonderful place for children to be.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. Did I see another comment? Yes, Ms. ____________. 

BY MS. ____________:  ____________.  In response to your question, I think that some of us are here just simply because it is a treehouse.  It just happens to be an elegant treehouse.  My children had a semblance of a treehouse in our back yard and they sat in it for years and watched the ballgames in the football field that is now abandoned behind us.  About five years ago, one of those planks that had embedded itself in the tree finally broke and fell out so no one can sit there anymore.  So I would say be very careful when you start writing that ordinance, that you don't demand that it be a mansion but just a good, well-constructed structure in a tree because everybody may not have trees in their back yards and every kid usually wants a treehouse.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Ms. ____________. Yes, ma'am.  In the white hair.

BY MS. ____________:  Yours is white too.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All I could see was the top of your head.

BY MS. ____________:  I'm ____________, and I've lived on Hannah Drive for 38 and a half years.  And I'm a neighborhood walker.  And I just wanted to clarify one point.  Y'all have seen the pictures of the treehouse with all the children there in support of the treehouse.  But I want to say this, that never are crowds of children there like that.  The Welches' children and two or three others is as many as I've ever seen there at one time.  And I think you need to know that because if there are 20 children there, you can't keep up with all of them. There has not been.  They were just there to support the treehouse.  But the Welches and the ________ children and two or three others that live close are the ones that play there.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, ma'am. In the back corner.  Yes, sir.

BY MR. ____________:  The Time Magazine issue, July 22nd, has a half-page article that has photographs similar to their treehouse.  I think their treehouse is as beautiful as anything in this article.  It is very popular, and I thought I would just add that.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Further comments, either for or against. Yes, sir, in the white shirt.

BY MR. ____________:  I'm ____________.  I live at ____________ Hannah Drive, around the street from this fine couple.  I walk by there most every day and I've seen the construction of the treehouse. The reason I'm here, I feel like this is a showplace for Clinton.  It's well-constructed. It's a beautiful piece of work and I'd hate to see it torn down.  I hope you can find some way that you can save the treehouse.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. (Clapping by Audience.)   

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Further comments.  Yes, ma'am.

BY MS. ____________:  I'm ____________ and I think we're all here to support Scot and Mary because we are community, and Scot and Mary are what community is all about.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Ms. ____________. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Further questions or comments.  Further comments.  If not, I'm going to call the public hearing to a close.  Final comments.

BY UNIDENTIFIED MAN IN AUDIENCE:  Keep the treehouse.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, ma'am, in the yellow shirt.

BY MS. ____________:  My husband won't let me speak.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Identify yourself.

BY MS. ____________:  My name is ____________. We live in Cascades subdivision.  And I can't remember how long we've been in Clinton.  Seems like all of our lives.  I wish I had been born here, but I wasn't.  I was born in It.  Well, I grew to love the Welches, and I stopped by just to inquire as to what was going on, and they told me.  And then I found out that Mary had been somewhere in the city to ask permission to do this thing, so that's -- that's why I'm for it.  If ________ started building something and he sent me to the city to get the right papers signed or okayed and I came down here to whoever or whatever and said, What do I need, he's at home building a treehouse and I want to make sure it's okay, and I was told everything is hunky-dory, go home and get to building. And that's why I'm here because she did all that she could do and they did all that they could do, and we need to stand behind these people because -- that's terrible.  Just imagine yourself in that position.  And I want to tell you something I read several weeks ago and I think it's appropriate here.  The tree that bends in the storm doesn't break.  I think we're about to be in a storm and I hope that we don't break.  I hope that we have enough common sense and good judgment to bend a bit.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Final comments. Otherwise, I'm calling it -- yes, sir.

BY MR. ____________:  My name is ____________.  I live down the street on Kitchings Drive and I'd like to echo a couple of these comments.  I do think it's terrible to know that Mrs. Welch had permission and was told she didn't need permission and we're going to selectively enforce some ordinance six or seven years later. I just can not understand how -- that is not a very -- this is extenuating circumstances.  And I told Mr. Welch that the house I built for my children 35 years ago in a tree, the city told me to tear it down and I wouldn't do it, but this is different.  And I think that's why the exception needs to be made in this case, and you can enforce the ordinance everywhere else and all other front yards in the city of Clinton, so be it, but this one needs to be accepted.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. ____________:  I'm ____________.  I live ____________ across the street from the treehouse, as we say here.  We're all impressed with the treehouse, but the thing that has impressed me most about it is the fact that the Welches have not put up a structure to say, okay, kids, here it is, go to it.  We live in a time when so many parents don't spend time which they should with their kids.  This is not true in this situation.  I'll give you one example of even the kid having a sore throat one day and Scot does not go to work so he could be there. They are out there playing with those kids, and this is a lesson that we all can learn as parents and grandparents and so on today.  It's not the structure as much as it is the care and the love that they have for children.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. ____________. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Final comments.  If not, then I call the public hearing to a close.  All right.  I think we've heard a lot of information tonight.  I don't know that we can all take it in, but let me remind the commission that we have a couple of options regarding this item before we -- I ask for a motion.  We can flat turn it all down and deny this request for conditional use.  You can grant the approval of the conditional use.  You can table it, or you can make a decision that we don't have enough information, that it can go to the mayor and board of aldermen without a recommendation to the mayor and board of aldermen.  So I think those are your basic choices.  Have I stated that correctly, Mr. Dreher?

BY MR. DREHER:  I believe that about covers it.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Since you know what your options are tonight, then I would like to call for a motion one way or the other regarding this request at 218 Kitchings Drive for Scot and Mary Welch.  Is there a motion?  I guess the other option is failure to have a motion and it goes to the mayor and board of aldermen also.  Do I have a motion? 

BY MRS. SHERER:  I'll make a motion that we send this on to the mayor and board of aldermen.  I feel like I had insufficient time to look over some of the material that was presented immediately prior to our meeting.  And just letting them go ahead and look over this material will give them greater insight into exactly what the situation is in the brief that was given to us, more than we ever had, and I'd like to make that motion.   

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  So the recommendation is to pass it on to the mayor and board of aldermen for their consideration.

BY MRS. SHERER:  That's correct.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Is that --

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  This is what passing the buck means.

BY MR. DREHER:  Yes.  The motion is to pass it on to the mayor and board of aldermen with no recommendation from the zoning board. Is that correct?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  That's correct.  There is a motion by Mrs. Sherer.  Is there a second? 

BY UNIDENTIFIED MAN IN AUDIENCE:  Are you-all elected?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  No.

BY MRS. SHERER:  After that question, I'd like to have a response, please.  I wish very much this was a popularity contest.  I have been by the playhouse many times.  I love the playhouse.  I would so much like to keep it. When I took this appointment, I gave my word that I would follow the zoning ordinance manual as closely as I knew how.  I am trying to do that tonight.  We have had facts presented to us that we have not had a chance to peruse.  I think it's imperative that this material be looked at before a decision is made.  The only decision I can give now is to pass it to someone who does have the time between now and their meeting to look at it.  I would vote yes, yes, keep it, if it was my personal desire.

BY MR. DREHER:  Was there a second?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes.  There is a motion on the floor.  There is a motion on the floor, a second by Mrs. King.  If there's no other further discussion from members of the commission, then do I hear a vote regarding this motion? All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye.

BY THE COMMISSION:  Aye.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Jim?

BY MR. MARTIN:  No. (Clapping by Audience.)

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Tammy, that was Mrs. Peace, no -- I mean, yes.  Mrs. Sherer, yes.  Mrs. King, yes. Mr. Albritton, yes, and Mr. Martin, no.  And I have abstained as chairman.  Okay.  Got all that?  All right. Mr. Smith, Mrs. Welch, this will go to the mayor and board of aldermen at their August 6th, 2002 -- 5:30 this time because of the situation. I hope you can get this information to them more than 20 minutes than you got it to us.

BY MR. SMITH:  Be rest assured.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All right.  Yes, Mr. ____________?

BY MR. ____________:  Are we to assume that all of you are not aware of the laws of Clinton, if this information is 20 -- I realize it's late, 20 minutes beforehand.  You didn't know the rules already?

BY MR. DREHER:  You don't need to comment on that, Mr. Campbell.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  All right.  This will go to the mayor and board of aldermen at their August 6th, 2002, session.  5:30 p.m.  We thank everyone for coming.

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  I'd like to know -- this is a question you can answer to yourself --

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Just a moment.

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  You're not going to answer it out loud, I'm sure, but 

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  There's a lady behind you that I've recognized before you, ma'am, that had her hand up.  Yes, ma'am?

BY MS. ____________:  I'm ____________ and August the 6th is National Night Out and the mayor and police will be driving around through the neighborhoods.  So they won't have much --

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  They -- the reason that it is 5:30 instead of their normal seven o'clock.  Yes, ma'am, I know. Yes, ma'am, in the red.

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  How many of you already -- and you can answer this tonight in your own homes with your own conscience, but how many of you tonight when you came here already had your mind made up about what your decision was going to be?

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  I don't think any of us that sit on this board come to any of our meetings -- I will speak for my commission tonight.  We come to this meeting with open and fair minds.

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  Okay. I'm just saying answer that question to yourself tonight.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Most times when we have these hearings, we have just the staff here. Until we have some article and item like this that is very emotional, this room is empty. That --

BY UNIDENTIFIED LADY IN AUDIENCE:  You answer it to yourself tonight in your home.  You don't have answer it now.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Back row.  Mr. ____________, one final comment.

BY MR. ____________:  I was going to say, is it a possibility that you could table this for a week and give everyone on your board a chance to evaluate it so that you come to the city council with a recommendation?  Because they're going to come into this with no help from you at all.

BY MR. DREHER:  Sure, they are.

BY MR. ____________:  Could you consider it for a week and come back with a recommendation? In fact, I think everybody here would be happy to come back a week from now.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you.  All right. We have final comments. Next item of business.  I believe we have one final item, Gary. (End of proceedings on Treehouse matter.)